trust me guys, I'm kicking myself in the posterior for this.

Thanks for the idea about getting a longblock from another place ...

Ok..Let'* get some things straight so you can go in with both guns blazing.

1. The reason your car quit from running perfectly was an upper intake failure. (research UIM and Upper Intake for more into)
2. Your motor wasn't seized. It was hydrolocked. (Cylinders were full of water and pistons can't compress a solid. Therefore starter won't turn it over)
3. When they pulled the intake off they should have seen the lower intake full of water and realized the situation.
4. Series 2 blocks are common and a shortblock would probably run ...(call your local parts stores and ask...it'll be around $1,000 at the most)
5. There is no reason the lifters would be bent or anything would be wrong with the valves and heads from an upper intake failure.
6. If you are going to throw away money by giving it to these guys...let me know..I'll send you my name and address...I like free money too.

Ok thanks Bill, after reading through the posts here I can take your word on what most likely happened.

Now the only question remaining .... is there anything I can look at when I go to the shop that would be a sure sign that this is exactly what happened. I'd like to be able to do this and more or less throw it back in there face and get my car fixed. With this information, and they won't fix it for the quoted price then I'm pulling my car out and trying to find a place to get it actually fixed.

Or any more thoughts...

Here'* a thread w/pics of what it should have looked like after they pulled the UIM:

UIM Failure Thread

It'* long but worth the read. I note that you mentioned a hole in the UIM. Bingo!

Lots more good pics in this thread:

http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/...ic.php?t=47455

You guys are the best!

I'm a fan for life! hehe I'm heading over now gunz a blazin'!

Thanks again!

I'll keep ya posted.

Best way to do it...is to let them say something or walk into something that can't be answered w/o telling that they are wrong.

Like..if the plugs were soaking wet. Say..Isn't hydrolocked?

Here are some engines near 77004, which is the random Housten Zipcode I picked and put into Car-Part.com

http://car-part.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?userSearch=int&userPID=1000&userLocatio n=Texas&userIMS=&userInterchange=%3EAD%40EN&userSi de=&userDate=1998&userDate2=1998&dbModel=61.1.3.3& userModel=Pontiac%20Bonneville%20(1980%20Up)&dbPar t=300.1&userPart=Engine&sessionID=558&sURL=car-part.com&userPreference=price&userZip=77004&userLa t=29.7248&userLong=-95.3632&userUID=0&userBroker=&iKey=&userPage=3

Most expensive is $1100 and the cheapest, non-core is $350

I just want to say that I disagree with how you're going about dealing with the shop that has your car. See, you're empowered now. You have real information about what happened to your car. They even said you have a hole in your intake. All the other things you say they said, like "thin valves" and "worn rocker arms" and "bent rods" and "fuel injectors sticking open" are just BS. I mean really, "thin valves" ??

But now that you're empowered with real information about what went wrong and what it normally takes to fix it, you want to "go in with guns blazing and stick it to them" (not actually sure what that means, but I hope you don't mean it literally) -and yet you *STILL* say you want them to fix it for the [originally] quoted price.

Look, you already know you're dealing with a shop that would rather tell you your entire engine is toast because of a hole in an intake manifold. They already quoted you a course of repair that, yeah, will get your car running again, but for that price you really can go out and buy a 1998 SE in perfect running order.

At this point it may very well be cheaper to buy another Series 2 3800 engine and have another shop drop it in. You should be researching other shops, and tow your car out of the one that has it. Get a used engine and swap it in, if it isn't feasible to just reassemble your existing engine with a new upper and lower intake manifold.