I have the common problem of the rear doors not opening on my '91 Bonneville SE (with power locks & windows).

I've gotten the right rear door open by removing the inner panel and jiggering the correct lever. I've removed the 3 torx screws that hold the latch mechanism in place and it'* rattling around loose in there.

I see that on Mar 19, 2003, zander wrote:
"I had to pull the track and molding for the small rear window in the door to get at the latches."

He'* right. I can't REMOVE the latch mechanism from the door because the window track is in the way... Just how should I do this, step by step?

Sometimes I get frustrated working on cars. This is one of those times... <sigh>

Thanks,

Mike D.

this is a common problem on our cars. I haven't had luck with this trick, but others have. Try unlocking, and hitting the door right before it gets it'* skinniest [several inches from the end corner] and then lock it, and try again. supposidly that will get it open, but like I said, it never worked for me.

The method I used, was to take out the three phillips head screws holding the door panel on. Once you get there, slowly work your way around the door, popping out all the clips from the cardboard backing. Once you get that, CAREFULLY pull out, you don't want to damage the clips. then, there is a little lever which you push up [while the car is locked, i have found to be the easiest], then unlock the door, and violia.

The other issue here is, if you close the door locked, or try to open the door when its locked, you will have the same problem. One person here has the solution.. but it requires removing the latch.. but its cheap.. just time consuming. anyone know who posted that?


-justin

searched, found this post

http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/...044&highlight=

also there is a link on there for a site.. which will help you out further

http://www.geocities.com/autotronics...e/SSEDoors.htm


-justin

Thanks, opensourceguy. I've studied Randman1'* posts & site. That'* how I got as far as I have. The problem is to get the latch mechanism out of the door now that I've got the door open, the trim panel off, and the screws out so that it'* already loose in the door!

The window track is in the way, and I cannot see what to do next. This is something that Randman1 either didn't have to deal with or failed to mention...

A big sledge hammer comes to mind, but I'm resisting the temptation!!!

Thank you!

Mike D.

You're well on your way to fixing your problem. There is a 4th torx bolt right with the other 3 latch bolts. This holds the bottom of the track that separates the stationary and moving glass. Also, there is another at the top of the door below the glass. If you click on the link to the tutorial, the access hole can barely be seen at the very top of the second pic. Remove both of these torx bolts and pull the guide forward about an inch or so. It doesn't need to go very far.

The is a third bolt for the guide at the top of the window frame but I didn't need to remove it. After removing all 3 rods that go to the latch, it needs to go up, around and out. That is up as high as it will go in the door, around the guide and out the door. You also may have to disconnect two wires coming from the latch. This is screwed to the latch assembly but there is a connector down line about 16". Dicsonnect it there.

Thanks for replying, Randman!

> There is a 4th torx bolt right with the other 3 latch bolts.
> This holds the bottom of the track that separates the
> stationary and moving glass.

Got this one at the same time as I removed the first 3...

> Also, there is another at the top of the door below the
> glass.

Got that one, too.

> Remove both of these torx bolts and pull the guide
> forward about an inch or so. It doesn't need to go very far.

Probably a stupid question, but I guess the power window needs to be lowered at least some in order to give this guide anywhere to go?

Even doing that, it'* not moving much... You're sorta pushing or springing it out of the way a little bit, is all?

> There is a third bolt for the guide at the top of the window
> frame but I didn't need to remove it.

There were two small torx screws on *top* of the window frame, which I've removed. Is that what you're talking about?

> After removing all 3 rods that go to the latch, it needs
> to go up, around and out. That is up as high as it will go
> in the door, around the guide and out the door.

Around the guide towards the skin side, or the inside? There'* not much room to work in there, as you know.

We're obviously close now. Thank you very much for your help!

Mike D.

You have the right idea. The latch goes around the guide on the outside (door skin side).

Did you get this one?



The guide only needs to be mooved forward a little bit. When you lift the latch upward in the door there should be enough room to get around the guide

Yep, Randman, I got to those screws. With the window part way down I used a pry-bar to put some (gentle) foreward pressure on the window track and it did move the better part of an inch. It didn't move before because various rubber gaskets and seals were gripping the window. The extra pressure caused them to let go and it finally gave way.

Now, I've gotten the latch mechanism out. Whew! Of course I had to drop it into the bottom of the door cavity about 3 times, first!

All the bits are there and nothing is rusted badly. I've cleaned it with break-away and piled some grease on everything that moves. It all seemed to work just fine, so why not when it was in the car?

I also noticed that the link on the door handle assembly that the outside latch button pushes on was pretty stiff, so I lubed that thoroughly as well.

I guess all that remains is to try putting it back and seeing what doesn't work... Any other cautions or suggestions?

Thanks, man!

Mike

I sat down with a couple of beers and inspected those latches very well for about 20 minutes trying to find out why they didn't work. This was especially true so with the passenger side so I could fix the rotted spring. During this time, the driver'* latch was marinating in WD-40.

So far, my passenger'* side has worked just fine since the fix but the driver'* side has failed twice and is currently not working. I have to go through all the crap you just did a second time. I think this time, I'm going to replace that spring on the dirver'* side to see if that prevents it. It might have lost some of it'* expansion abilities as it rusts.

What I'm trying to say is that although my driver'* side showed no signs of breakage, it still gives me problems. I guess the only thing left to do in your case is lube the bejesus out of it and reinstall. It'* tough to fix things that aren't really broken.

Yep, I'm with you, Randman!

I put it back in, well lubed, and it'* still screwed up... Got it back out now and I'm looking at it really good...

There are two springs. The one near the top, rearward edge is part of the locking mechanism. It works under tension.

The other spring is the one you replaced with your screw & spring repair, and is in line with the main latch linkage. It works under compression.

When the door is unlocked, both springs act together to pull the main latch linkage back to its starting position. When you lock it, only the single compression spring works to return the latch linkage. The problem is, that second spring is not strong enough by itself to return the linkage against the resistance of the exterior latch button link.

So, if you lock the door and activate the outside latch button or the inside lever, the linkage moves everything, including the link to the external button, causing the linkage to stick. Now neither the button nor the inside lever acts against anything.

Moving the lock lever to the unlock position doesn't do anything now, because the latch mechanism is still clenched against the weak spring and the locking lever doesn't engage anything with the latch linkage in the position it'* stuck in.

So only by unsticking the latch linkage, somehow, can you get back to where both springs are engaged and acting together. Your door is completely stuck.

The compression spring could be replaced with a stronger one or augmented with another spring somewhere in the linkage. It looks like there'* a hole next to the compression spring that could take one end of a tension spring. The other end could loop around the lever lower down or through a small hole drilled in same. That would solve the problem... at least until the link to the external button gets even stiffer...

Or I suppose we could focus on the real culprit, and try to make that damn handle button link move more freely!

Does any of that make sense?

Thanks again!

Mike