hard to find no-start problem
02-12-2004, 11:10 AM
#12
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Originally Posted by padgett
Well if WOW show chrome plated or Canadian dollars maybe. Haven't looked under an Olds of that vintage but on 90 Bonneville, swapping a starter is a 1/2 hour job and ESC/coil module with disassembly/reassembly, 20 minutes (probably 2hours/1hour by "the book".
Where they probably got you is on the piece prices: GM list for an ESC (24503623) is U$245 and the coil (12353801) is U$125 - see www.partsvoice.com, they list older parts that GMPartsDirect doesn't - so they have you for $400 right there. Add $100 for the starter (rebuilt) and about $150 labor and you reach the high side of U$600 real quick.
This used to bother me until I realized that a) most people are not mechanically minded and b) even at those rates I like working on computers more.
So having 3 vehicles with essentially the same drivetrain, I just keep common replacables on hand. The problem is all of the parts I have for cars I no longer own.
Know anyone who could use about two pickup (or one real) trucks full of V-8 H-body parts: 4 speeds, posi axles (note the "*") and a bunch of unobtainable stuff like 13" Snowflake wheels ?
Where they probably got you is on the piece prices: GM list for an ESC (24503623) is U$245 and the coil (12353801) is U$125 - see www.partsvoice.com, they list older parts that GMPartsDirect doesn't - so they have you for $400 right there. Add $100 for the starter (rebuilt) and about $150 labor and you reach the high side of U$600 real quick.
This used to bother me until I realized that a) most people are not mechanically minded and b) even at those rates I like working on computers more.
So having 3 vehicles with essentially the same drivetrain, I just keep common replacables on hand. The problem is all of the parts I have for cars I no longer own.
Know anyone who could use about two pickup (or one real) trucks full of V-8 H-body parts: 4 speeds, posi axles (note the "*") and a bunch of unobtainable stuff like 13" Snowflake wheels ?
*sigh*
not too much i can do about it now...
matt
02-12-2004, 02:22 PM
#13
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Well, not onlly that, but do we even know that she'* getting new, genuine GM, parts? If she'* paying that much for china aftermarket, i'll be mucho upseto. The starter for sure. Those are almost always off-brand.
If only she wasn't so far away, and the problem wasn't so urgent. We coulda went for some junkyard parts and done the whole job for so much less. I know, they would have failed again sooner. But she only paid $1000 for the entire car this past fall.
Eh, whatever. It'* all hindsight and regrets now. I just hope it'* fixed.
If only she wasn't so far away, and the problem wasn't so urgent. We coulda went for some junkyard parts and done the whole job for so much less. I know, they would have failed again sooner. But she only paid $1000 for the entire car this past fall.
Eh, whatever. It'* all hindsight and regrets now. I just hope it'* fixed.
02-14-2004, 01:55 PM
#14
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I recently went through this whole hard start myself. Whenever the car would sit for 8 hours or more, it was hard to start. Just kept on cranking and cranking like it would eventually catch. Usually I`d crank for 30 seconds and still dosen`t start. Sometimes I`d press on the accelerator and crank it, it would eventually start. BTW its an Olds Royale 1989 with 181,000km. I bought the car 5 months ago as my winter transportation. I finally got fed up with the hard start and brought it to my mechanic who said it is most likely the ECM, he told me where it was, under the passenger side of the dash, I replaced it myself with a used unit for 100.00, now it starts perfectly. Except in the winter cold when I would start it and it stalls and can be restarted right away, I could live with that, I would iamgine that this is a totally different problem. Does anyone know why it would start like that when its cold and only when first starting in the morning.
I believe your problem is the ECM, mine was, exact symptoms as you`re describing.
Hope this is helpful to you.
I believe your problem is the ECM, mine was, exact symptoms as you`re describing.
Hope this is helpful to you.
02-14-2004, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by theJMFC
Thanks for the ideas, Padgett. While I don't have a fuel pressure gauge, scan tool, spare coil pack, or spare ECM in my garage, I do have a few ideas that I can pass along to my bro-in-law, who is closer and better able to try them out.
Sadly, the car doesn't have a tach (it'* an olds, and they didn't believe in gauges much beyond speed and fuel back then. we're lucky that the fuel gauge wasn't replaced by a dummy light. ).
They tell me now that the shop wants to try new plug wires, but i've never known plug wires to fail and work perfectly at random. Does any other component here have the tendency to work at random? The car doesn't stall or run abnormally once it'* started. It'* just that most times, it refuses to start.
Sadly, the car doesn't have a tach (it'* an olds, and they didn't believe in gauges much beyond speed and fuel back then. we're lucky that the fuel gauge wasn't replaced by a dummy light.
).They tell me now that the shop wants to try new plug wires, but i've never known plug wires to fail and work perfectly at random. Does any other component here have the tendency to work at random? The car doesn't stall or run abnormally once it'* started. It'* just that most times, it refuses to start.
Oh well, $600 is not outrageous these days, if you have a mechanic work on it.
02-15-2004, 05:27 PM
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I have an ESC (electronic spark control, the ignition module under the coil pack) that works "sometimes" but tested fine on the AutoZone tester. When it doesn't the engine just cranks with no fire.
Since the whole ignition assembly is a 15 minute swap (three nuts under the bracket, the bolt holding the connector in place, six plg wires) and easy to reach from the top, I would definately start there.
If plugs or plug wires or even a coil it might run rough but it would run. Bad ESC could either run or do nothing.
I like the later Delco unit (individual oval coils) a lot better.
Since the whole ignition assembly is a 15 minute swap (three nuts under the bracket, the bolt holding the connector in place, six plg wires) and easy to reach from the top, I would definately start there.
If plugs or plug wires or even a coil it might run rough but it would run. Bad ESC could either run or do nothing.
I like the later Delco unit (individual oval coils) a lot better.
02-16-2004, 12:41 AM
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I had a similair problem with our Bonney a couple of years ago. It did turn out to be the coil pack. Over the last few days I thought the problem was coming back but I accidently discovered the car would start and run flawlessly with just a LITTLE pressure on the pedal. I changed the IAC (Idle Air Control) motor and it seems to be fixed..few more days will tell for sure
02-16-2004, 06:10 AM
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i had a similar problem with me 91 sse mine would die while drivin bout everything stayed on and it would crank but not start for a while then it was fine
check the crankshaft poss. sensor and wiring harness its behind the harmonic balancer costs about $350 to have dealer replace
check the crankshaft poss. sensor and wiring harness its behind the harmonic balancer costs about $350 to have dealer replace
02-16-2004, 06:49 AM
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Um, very late in the conversation here, but have you checked the Fuel Pressure Regulator? That fixed my hard start problem a while back.
02-16-2004, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by jr's3800
Originally Posted by tool_814
i had a similar problem with me 91 sse mine would die while drivin bout everything stayed on and it would crank but not start for a while then it was fine
check the crankshaft poss. sensor and wiring harness its behind the harmonic balancer costs about $350 to have dealer replace
check the crankshaft poss. sensor and wiring harness its behind the harmonic balancer costs about $350 to have dealer replace
Sounds like GM to me 
Of course..then theres other stuff that they can be downright reasonable on. I recently changed the intake/head gaskets in my Malibu and the GM dealer was the cheapest in town for my parts.
